VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

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Hungover00

Hungover00

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Eleanorduval said:
all.

for men i find only ian look like eric. Jack are bald,so don t look like axel same for arthur and seymour. I dunno wich u think he look like to one of ORS character.U can share screenshot of both games,so we can compare.I m speaking of apparence to be clear
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Ah, I think there has been some confusion. The previous guy wasn't saying they look alike, they were saying that a lot of characters from GGGB have shown up in ORS. They made an appearance. So they showed up, were there. Not that their looks/appearance was similar to another.
 
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Socrambus

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ffive said:
Hmm the comment in the code ("lena dating route") makes it seem like this is intentional, but at the same time i really feel like this is accident with variable mix-up, because not only the check gets passed without any actual Lena dating taking place, it makes absolutely no sense for Holly to come to Ian, hat in hand, about her Lena crush, when Lena and Ian are simply friends with benefits. It also doesn't make any real sense in this situation for Ian to have options to act as if either Holly or Lena was obliged to tell him about is as soon as it happened. It also makes little sense for the whole supposed "pure trinity" to just kind of form out of nowhere when two out of three people involved are fucking around with potentially all that moves and have very little to no romantic development between them.

PilotLara sorry to bother you, but could you maybe check with EK if it is intentional that it is possible for "holly trinity" to form when Ian isn't dating (as in, actually dating) neither Lena nor Holly? Because these bits in chapter_12b:
Python: 
                if lena_go_holly == 5 and ian_lena_dating:
were perhaps supposed to be checking ian_lena_couple instead of the fuck buddies "dating" variable..? It's pretty easy to forget here that this "dating" isn't actually dating, especially in this context when ian_holly_dating exists and is a flag for "real" relationship.

edit: looking further, this issue extends to chapter_12c where Ian and Lena can have a morning talk about Holly and the trinity (as the check only hinges on lena_go_holly == 5), and the way the whole thing is written really makes no sense in scenario where Ian and Lena are just fuckbuddies -- the whole conversation completely ignores this possibility and is hard-coded to proceed as if Lena and Ian are in love with each other ("I'm afraid to hurt either of you. You've both become the most important people in my life, and I don't want to lose you..." etc) even though Lena and Ian at this point never "upgraded" their relationship from FWB status --that would normally occur later in this chapter but the trinity talk at the beach in the evening actually blocks that-- and there's possibility that they don't have any actual love flags set for each other. It similarly makes no sense for Ian in this context to have any say whether Lena and Holly are "allowed" to have a relationship or whether they should stop, or even act as if he's entitled to have any say regarding that, when Ian and Lena are simply hooking up and Ian is just one of potentially many Lena's sex outlets.
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I agree that the requisites for the holy trinity should be more stringent. To match the tone of the writing you would probably need the same requisites than the Ian and Lena pure path in addition to the lena_go_holly variable and a higher value for the ian_go_holly (I think 1 is currently enough).

But I disagree with Holly going to talk to Ian about the kiss making no sense in the current circunstances. For someone like Holly (with little experience) maybe there is no much difference between the couple situation and the FWB. Also I would argue that kissing your friend's fuckbuddy is not cool, the very least you could do is tell him. At least that would be the case being a man, I assume is the same if your female friend kisses your gf (never been in the situation). In addition to that, there's the precedence of Lena "breaking up" with Ian over him kissing Holly and both Ian and Lena disliking the other having sex with other people (whether they are in their right to be or not).
 
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ffive

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Socrambus said:
But I disagree with Holly going to talk to Ian about the kiss making no sense in the current circunstances. For someone like Holly (with little experience) maybe there is no much difference between the couple situation and the FWB. Also I would argue that kissing your friend's fuckbuddy is not cool, the very least you could do is tell him. At least that would be the case being a man, I assume is the same if your female friend kisses your gf (never been in the situation). In addition to that, there's the precedence of Lena "breaking up" with Ian over him kissing Holly and both Ian and Lena disliking the other having sex with other people (whether they are in their right to be or not).
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The thing is, in this scenario Ian is just one of potentially many of Lena's sex partners. Ian doesn't even have to be one that Lena favors, but just a guy she has hooked up a couple times while she's obsessing over Mike, Axel or Jeremy. Going with this logic, should Holly then circle around the block and confess to every of Lena's other sex partners that she has actually kissed Lena and please don't be mad because it happened? I feel it renders it rather obvious the whole idea is absurd.

(it's not even the matter of "but Holly and Ian are friends" because that's not something that's really guaranteed -- Ian could've potentially given Holly cold shoulder at every turn and refused her offers to interact. It won't stop Holly from still going to him in search of permission/forgiveness as if he's entitled to it)

This only gets sillier with the game leaving it up to Ian and not Lena whether Lena can have sex with Holly or that they should be only friends. Like, this is really not his call to make or if it supposedly is then again, should Axel, Mike etc also have a say in this regard? It's not like Lena asks for their permissions, nor Ian's for this matter, when she hooks up with other guys. But for her relationship with Holly the game suddenly deprives her of her (and Holly's) rightful agency. This really doesn't make much sense outside of situation where Ian and Lena are actual couple, with all that entails.

It's also not really the same situation as with Lena breaking up over Holly earlier in the game, because at that point Lena and Ian didn't yet have their FWB arrangement ironed out, but they're dating like a potential couple. Once that arrangement is in place neither Lena nor Ian have grounds to complain about their hookup doing hookups with other people, and the game doesn't consider this cheating or anything that warrants any sort of discussion between those two, much less vetting each other's partners.
 
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GokutheG

GokutheG

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ffive said:
The thing is, in this scenario Ian is just one of potentially many of Lena's sex partners. Ian doesn't even have to be one that Lena favors, but just a guy she has hooked up a couple times while she's obsessing over Mike, Axel or Jeremy. Going with this logic, should Holly then circle around the block and confess to every of Lena's other sex partners that she has actually kissed Lena and please don't be mad because it happened? I feel it renders it rather obvious the whole idea is absurd.

(it's not even the matter of "but Holly and Ian are friends" because that's not something that's really guaranteed -- Ian could've potentially given Holly cold shoulder at every turn and refused her offers to interact. It won't stop Holly from still going to him in search of permission/forgiveness as if he's entitled to it)

This only gets sillier with the game leaving it up to Ian and not Lena whether Lena can have sex with Holly or that they should be only friends. Like, this is really not his call to make or if it supposedly is then again, should Axel, Mike etc also have a say in this regard? It's not like Lena asks for their permissions, nor Ian's for this matter, when she hooks up with other guys. But for her relationship with Holly the game suddenly deprives her of her (and Holly's) rightful agency. This really doesn't make much sense outside of situation where Ian and Lena are actual couple, with all that entails.

It's also not really the same situation as with Lena breaking up over Holly earlier in the game, because at that point Lena and Ian didn't yet have their FWB arrangement ironed out, but they're dating like a potential couple. Once that arrangement is in place neither Lena nor Ian have grounds to complain about their hookup doing hookups with other people, and the game doesn't consider this cheating or anything that warrants any sort of discussion between those two, much less vetting each other's partners.
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The reason Holly doesn't tell the other possible guys that Lena can see is because they aren't her friends(& she can't join those relationships). She feels guilty that she may be getting between her friends and their relationship. I get that Ian can turn down her advances but she still considers him her friend hence the possible guilt. It's like with Ivy just because Lena/Ivy points can get pretty low it's still written that they are friends just that they've started to drift apart.
 
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ffive

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GokutheG said:
The reason Holly doesn't tell the other possible guys that Lena can see is because they aren't her friends(& she can't join those relationships). She feels guilty that she may be getting between her friends and their relationship. I get that Ian can turn down her advances but she still considers him her friend hence the possible guilt. It's like with Ivy just because Lena/Ivy points can get pretty low it's still written that they are friends just that they've started to drift apart.
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As i've mentioned in my post Holly isn't guaranteed to be anything but an acquaintance with Ian and doesn't own any sort of "friend loyalty" to him, but she will still act in the same manner. It's nothing like Lena/Ivy who start with relationship at high level and have long history together. Ian and Holly have next to none and it can very well stay at this basic level if Ian doesn't interact with Holly favorably.

Also, the point is that there's no relationship in this scenario for Holly to get in between of. That's why the writing feels off. Because it's made for arrangement where there is a relationship between Ian and Lena, but it's still played in the exact same way where there isn't one, and Ian is just one of Lena's many dicks that Lena jumps on for fun.

I mean, ngl, i'm kind of tempted to make a playthrough where both Lena and Ian fuck literally everyone they can, explicitly avoid establishing any feelings for one another, Ian stays away from Holly the entire game and then they still end in a lovey dovey throuple that suddenly makes them gush how much they love every other. Just to illustrate how dumb it can get. :whistle:
 
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GokutheG

GokutheG

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ffive said:
As i've mentioned in my post Holly isn't guaranteed to be anything but an acquaintance with Ian and doesn't own any sort of "friend loyalty" to him, but she will still act in the same manner. It's nothing like Lena/Ivy who start with relationship at high level and have long history together. Ian and Holly have next to none and it can very well stay at this basic level if Ian doesn't interact with Holly favorably.

Also, the point is that there's no relationship in this scenario for Holly to get in between of. That's why the writing feels off. Because it's made for arrangement where there is a relationship between Ian and Lena, but it's still played in the exact same way where there isn't one, and Ian is just one of Lena's many dicks that Lena jumps on for fun.

I mean, ngl, i'm kind of tempted to make a playthrough where both Lena and Ian fuck literally everyone they can, explicitly avoid establishing any feelings for one another, Ian stays away from Holly the entire game and then they still end in a lovey dovey throuple that suddenly makes them gush how much they love every other. Just to illustrate how dumb it can get. :whistle:
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But I thought the fwb route was the one where they're together but they decided to take things slow since they're still hurting from their previous relationship. How Holly acts makes more sense if that's what Eva intended for that path to be.

I think we can just say that there are some variables that Eva didn't account for. It's possible that there are some standard positions Eva takes with these 3. Like Holly always considers Ian a friend, Lena always worry about Holly's feelings regarding him, Lena always gets upset at Ian if he sleeps with Holy without dating her.

I do wonder what Eva's defaults are for the characters when she writes.
 
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Hungover00

Hungover00

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GokutheG said:
But I thought the fwb route was the one where they're together but they decided to take things slow since they're still hurting from their previous relationship. How Holly acts makes more sense if that's what Eva intended for that path to be.

I think we can just say that there are some variables that Eva didn't account for. It's possible that there are some standard positions Eva takes with these 3. Like Holly always considers Ian a friend, Lena always worry about Holly's feelings regarding him, Lena always gets upset at Ian if he sleeps with Holy without dating her.

I do wonder what Eva's defaults are for the characters when she writes.
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I think it's Holly always has a crush on Ian, not that they are friends.
 
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ffive

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GokutheG said:
But I thought the fwb route was the one where they're together but they decided to take things slow since they're still hurting from their previous relationship. How Holly acts makes more sense if that's what Eva intended for that path to be.
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Well, the game kind of tries to eat the cake and keeps it too in this scenario. Depending on the variables both Ian and Lena will say that they don't feel ready for a relationship and want to keep it casual. But they also talk, regardless of love flags, that they feel "something special". But they still leave it completely free to fuck around with any and all other guys and girls, so that really whole "something special" seems like just some cheap lip service than anything real.

The thing is, ultimately it comes far more to "show, not tell" and what the player has both Lena and Ian actually do in their playthrough. And some of these actions really stretch the plausibility of "and then they became a pure-loving throuple with eyes for no one but only one another".

Or, to put it differently, apparently the simplest way to get the "Holly Trinity" is for Ian to avoid getting in relationship with either Holly or Lena, and for Lena to hit on Holly (in-between fucking whoever she pleases) Which i find really hard to believe was EK's intention regarding this relationship, when the alternative paths require you to jump through all sorts of hoops.
 
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Hungover00

Hungover00

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ffive said:
Well, the game kind of tries to eat the cake and keeps it too in this scenario. Depending on the variables both Ian and Lena will say that they don't feel ready for a relationship and want to keep it casual. But they also talk, regardless of love flags, that they feel "something special". But they still leave it completely free to fuck around with any and all other guys and girls, so that really whole "something special" seems like just some cheap lip service than anything real.

The thing is, ultimately it comes far more to "show, not tell" and what the player has both Lena and Ian actually do in their playthrough. And some of these actions really stretch the plausibility of "and then they became a pure-loving throuple with eyes for no one but only one another".

Or, to put it differently, apparently the simplest way to get the "Holly Trinity" is for Ian to avoid getting in relationship with either Holly or Lena, and for Lena to hit on Holly (in-between fucking whoever she pleases) Which i find really hard to believe was EK's intention regarding this relationship, when the alternative paths require you to jump through all sorts of hoops.
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Even if they are just FWB, they have good chemistry (better than Robert at the very least), and can quickly become friends, whether they become romantic or not. That is something special.

But I agree, jumping from that into a romantic throuple is odd or broken.
 
SerHawkes

SerHawkes

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The Throuple Hawkes wants naturally is Lena and Ivy with Ian. Two A-class models, while my bro is both writing stories and winning MMA tournys.

Would accept a Lena-Emma throuple as well. For well... reasons.
 
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Hungover00

Hungover00

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SearingFive said:
Yeah, Holly always had a crush on Ian. Even Lena pointed out that Holly was more infatuated than her towards Ian.
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I'm kind of proud of slut Holly finally getting Ian (at the beach-house), though honestly I had to do the work of making sure the playing field was empty so she could make her move.
 
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Hungover00

Hungover00

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SerHawkes said:
The Throuple Hawkes wants naturally is Lena and Ivy with Ian. Two A-class models, while my bro is both writing stories and winning MMA tournys.

Would accept a Lena-Emma throuple as well. For well... reasons.
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Emma is quality, and a throuple or as an addition to the Holly Trinity would be acceptable.

Ivy doesn't really do long term relationships (Lena as a friend is the closest we've heard of), so she'd really have to swerve to fit in a throuple. A threesome though, that's Ivy's Tuesday.
 
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SerHawkes

SerHawkes

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Hungover00 said:
Ivy doesn't really do long term relationships (Lena as a friend is the closest we've heard of), so she'd really have to swerve to fit in a throuple.
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I'm sure once (if) we get the chance to make her swoon a bit she might change her mind, if we were to play our cards right of course. Unfortunately, which is par for the course, I don't see it happening any time soon.
 
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SearingFive

SearingFive

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There would be no swooning. Ivy's gonna fuck Ian once and move on to a different pole, sounds harsh but throughout the game, we've come to see that she's not settling down. Just like Lena pointed out "Ivy the crazy old cat lady". Her value's gonna plummet as she grows old.
 
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SerHawkes

SerHawkes

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SearingFive said:
There would be no swooning. Ivy's gonna fuck Ian once and move on to a different pole, sounds harsh but throughout the game, we've come to see that she's not settling down. Just like Lena pointed out "Ivy the crazy old cat lady". Her value's gonna plummet as she grows old.
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Stop blowing holes in my ideal fantasy relationship with a gal 5 going on to 6 years removed!

I honestly think Ian might be the one to break that line of thinking. Lets be real: Most of the guys shes with just want one thing from her: sex. And she is very likely used to that concept. Have fun, no ties, yadda yadda yadda. Yet, I think if we have our boy Ian truly break that expecation that she is so used to, I honestly think a true relationship might happen. (Pending EK actually puts in the effort of that happening, which is doubtful.)
 
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4.60 star(s) 350 Votes